S3E03 – Should I Start a Podcast?

September 7, 2023 Damn Good Marketing Podcast

Thinking of Starting a Podcast? The allure of this shiny new toy has captivated everyone, but it’s serious business. In this episode of the Damn Good Marketing Podcast, Join Subha Chandrasekaran and Hasita Krishna as they dive into the depths of podcasting, sharing their experiences, insights, and unexpected discoveries. From the challenges of finding the right niche and keeping up with the demands of consistent content to deciphering podcast metrics and managing distribution, they reveal the realities behind the scenes. Explore the question: Is starting a podcast the right move for you? Get ready to uncover the truth about the podcasting journey!

Table of Contents

Discussion Topics: Should I Start a Podcast?

Should I Start A Podcast?
Why Start A Podcast?
Effort vs. Outcome
What Is The Contribution of Podcasts?
How Do They Manage?
The Distribution Process
Keeping Your Promise To The Audience
How the Podcast Rankings Change
What is Hasita’s Response To Clients Wanting To Start a Podcast?
Podcasts As Standalone Ventures
Increasing Awareness About Podcasts
Celebrity Podcasts
Hosting a Podcast
What is a Big Podcast?
Segment – Only Murders in The Building
Who Shat On The Floor At My Wedding
How Do You Decide If Podcast Is The Right Thing For You?

Transcript: Should I Start a Podcast?

Subha Chandrasekaran: Leverage dopamine to overcome procrastination and optimise effort. I can listen to Dr. Huberman talk about this for hours, and I just did. There’s something about his voice, his ability to really break it down to the listener, if you will, that just keeps you so hooked.

And you keep coming back for more. And on the other side, if I’m really feeling down and out or even just want something that is so mindless, then I reach out to James and Jimmy and Suddenly, I’m in a little small town in rural America, population 800, and I’m laughing away as they describe a grizzly murder.

This really is my favourite new toy.

Hasita Krishna: Good to know you’re enjoying the podcasting scene Subha, which you’ve been doing for a while, because on the other hand, I listened to William Dalrymple’s podcast recently. I love the man’s books. I’ve enjoyed them so much, but then I heard the podcast and such a big let down.

I’m like, I just spent an hour and a half listening to you. Give me my time back. And with that kind of leverage where you are essentially asking people to pay attention to you for 15, 20, 30 minutes, hours, marketing teams are asking a question,

Subha Chandrasekaran: Should I start a podcast?

Hasita Krishna: Should you, let’s find out.

Should I Start A Podcast?

Subha Chandrasekaran: I think this is definitely something new and it’s the shiny new toy that everyone wants to be playing with, and I get the allure wherever you go, you are seeing and hearing about podcasts.

But I think both you and I know that it’s a serious business.

Hasita Krishna: As we are finding out by the day. In fact, I think we are very much on the journey still, and there’s so much else for us to consider. In fact, this season was, we were, talking about whether this should be a video podcast which was a big jump considering we’ve never been on camera while we record.

Subha Chandrasekaran: I think there’s quite a few things for us to cover, one why podcast? I think that’s the fundamental question. What can it do for you? What’s the upside? And I think more importantly, what’s the downside? There’s a lot of effort that goes into each episode and how do you figure out if it’s the right fit for you?

Why Start A Podcast?

Hasita Krishna: Absolutely.

This is an interesting question, right? Because there is production value involved. you can do it, you can put on your AirPods and just do a recording and upload it, which is something we did for a very long time as well. But it is a commitment and in that context I find that sometimes maybe we go after it.

Because we are afraid of missing out on something that maybe a competitor might latch onto. Say they start a podcast in a month and I don’t, then what happens? But then also I find that it’s a bigger question than that. What we are saying is, in the doing of this podcast, is it going to solve the problems that the rest of my marketing effort has not solved for?

Subha Chandrasekaran: I think many do come to it as a magic pill? Because other marketing efforts haven’t worked too well. And now everybody’s talking about podcasts, so maybe that’s what will then make everything go upward.

Hasita Krishna: So let’s burst that bubble first as we found out to our own sadness and misery.

Launching a podcast is not gonna get listeners. Distributing a podcast is a whole other beast, and the number of variables in that context are just simply too high. I don’t know if anyone has cracked performance marketing for podcasts. And subha, you’ve had this experience of someone reaching out and saying, I’ll get you listenership in a 24 hour period, which smelled a little funny to you. And then that conversation, we know went a bit south as well.

Subha Chandrasekaran: She tried to scam me, basically.

Hasita Krishna: I was trying to be kind about it.

So your question then is if it’s not gonna get your listenership on the day that you launch, why do a podcast?

Subha Chandrasekaran: I think there are enough real life examples. If. Meghan Markle can get cancelled.

Hasita Krishna: And the Obamas can get cancelled.

Subha Chandrasekaran: And for what? For lack of audience.

Hasita Krishna: Can you imagine?

Subha Chandrasekaran: How did Megan Markle think people haven’t heard enough from her anyway. But the point is that just starting one and honestly even starting one and having good content or having a good topic or a good niche. We now know that’s just not enough.

Effort vs. Outcome

Hasita Krishna: Absolutely. Which is let’s zero down on that effort versus outcome conversation a little bit. What would you want through the launch of the podcast? Say you do episodes continuously for six months. And at best you do a biweekly or even a weekly programming if you’re able to.

What is that end goal that will make you feel like, okay I’ve succeeded at this. And it’s interesting because I was on a round table with Jay Acunzo, who I admire and appreciate just out of this world. He writes beautiful stuff on LinkedIn. We’ve enjoyed his storytelling, examples and master classes.

And in fact, someone came to him with this exact question and they asked him, but I’m doing all this and my podcast is not getting listeners. And he just said, “Why do you want listeners?”

Subha Chandrasekaran: I think we have to start there and if we are honest, it took us a while to admit what we really wanted out of this and to recalibrate our expectations.

Hasita Krishna: Absolutely. I think there is, in the production of a podcast, it has to be satisfying at the process level, and then it has to be satisfying at the outcome level as well. And, for us, especially for me at season two to look for sponsorships, which was a big success metric in my mind that if I get sponsored by someone, then I’ve arrived.

I see now that was the wrong thing to go after. Cause first and foremost, it would’ve limited my own ability to create what I want. And secondly, sponsorship to the extent of what was really going to satisfy me completely. And then I think coming into season two, the clarity has emerged for both of us that firstly, we do this because we like to do it.

It’s interesting, it’s fun. It’s a new medium. It’s something we are excited to consume, first of all.

What Is The Contribution of Podcasts?

Subha Chandrasekaran: I think it adds to our work in a very nuanced way. For example, we are talking about things that are otherwise also part of the work that we do individually. So researching for the podcast, talking about it marking out stuff that we want to dive deeper into.

Not only excites and interests us, but it adds value to the core work that we do. Exactly right. This is not our core work. This is above and beyond that, and it adds value to your role as a marketer, my role as a coach, and that’s what we enjoy.

Hasita Krishna: Which is interesting because when we started the podcast, Motley Crew was a very new company as well. These two things happened almost, in parallel. And if you ask me, was it intentional? Absolutely not. I didn’t know what I was doing at that point in time, but it has definitely helped over the course of a couple of years in terms of people seeing me as a marketing person and not only as a content person. And I think that is the biggest contribution and leverage. That podcast has given me this space.

Subha Chandrasekaran: That’s true. I think it unintentionally got well timed with your transition. And the setting up of Motley Crew, so it helped build that identity. And once we’ve talked about that offline and once we were clear that’s what the intent of the podcast is. It establishes what is the kind of work you do, what are the areas that interest you and what are you thinking about reading about deep diving into today that is of value to your current clients and potential clients And that kind of credibility, honestly, where else would I build?

Hasita Krishna: I’ve gotten somebody’s attention for 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes, however long people tune in. And during that period of time, they get a sneak peek into how I think And I think that to me is the biggest contribution that a podcast could make. So, talking about conversions, if other vehicles are working, other engines are working, I think podcasts are a great addition. Purely from a thought leadership standpoint. It gives people a perspective into other people whom they never meet, and that to me is a very valuable thing in and of itself.

Subha Chandrasekaran: To add to what you said, if other parts of the engine are not working, then this is not going to revive that.

Hasita Krishna: Yes, that is also true, right? If other parts of the engine are not working, then there’s a bigger problem there in terms of probably the messaging itself. So that needs to be solved first, I think.

So before you start a podcast of your own, would you please hit the subscribe and follow button because we have some really interesting conversation brewing here.

How Do They Manage?

Subha Chandrasekaran: I do get a lot of very genuine questions around, Hey, how do you guys manage, right? Because we really have two shows running. At the same time. Always two very different niches. It’s not easy. I think that’s the first thing that I’d like to put out there.

Hasita Krishna: If you saw the number of coffee cups that are on our tables right now,

Subha Chandrasekaran: It’s definitely not easy. I did, I think almost three seasons of a weekly. And that was tough. Weekly, including a lot of guest episodes. Is a very unique kind of pressure. turn up at the quality that you want to be there for your listeners.

Hasita Krishna: And I think in one of those seasons you did a lot of guest episodes as well.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Correct. So it’s not just that you turn on Zoom or you pick up a mic and then you talk because there’s a lot of work that goes into it pre and post. You don’t want to invite somebody onto your podcast and not have done.

Hasita Krishna: Your homework or have been ready for them.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Because there’s also the pressure of what am I asking them that hasn’t been asked of them before in some public forum, how am I adding value to my listeners and to any audience that they may share with.

So there are a lot of expectations from these conversations. So there is a lot of preparation that goes into it. And then once you record, there’s obviously the entire production angle and maybe we’ll touch upon that. A little later. And also then the distribution.

The Distribution Process

Hasita Krishna: The distribution. Please share this with five people before we proceed.

Subha Chandrasekaran: So interestingly, you are starting a podcast because your social media channels are not getting the kind of following that you want. And then our first discovery was that we have to put the podcast on social media to get more listeners.

So literally running around in circles, chasing our own tail.

Hasita Krishna: Which is interesting, right? Because I think of a podcast, we mistake it for one in our heads. It’s not a social media platform, right? None of these platforms are organically promoting your content. Unless you apply somewhere and get featured out of the thousands of the others that are applying. Can you imagine how busy the business category must be?

Subha Chandrasekaran: Or they have paid you millions to be there.

Hasita Krishna: That too. Nobody’s paying us that. But, hopefully, why not? So it really does come down to the fact that you’ve started another thing, which again, doesn’t have the wings to take itself places.

You have to take it places. It’s like a baby. You have to ferry it around. You have to put it in front of people. So honestly, I think if numbers are what is the primary metric of success, maybe just go after good guests. Because they will bring in their own leverage and distribution. Obviously your episode to episode retainer ship may not be very high in that context, but at least you have the number of listens that justify early investment, and I get that right.

A lot of companies need early proof that this is working and the only way we know how things work is when we see the numbers.

Keeping Your Promise To The Audience

Subha Chandrasekaran: And sticking to that baby metaphor, this is not the baby that’s going to save the marriage.

Hasita Krishna: I hate to say that, but true.

Subha Chandrasekaran: So it’s something that really needs to be nurtured for what it is. And that does take a lot of effort. And it also, finally when you do realise that it’s something that you’re doing for. Increased awareness, increased credibility, then you have to show up when you say you’ll show up.

Hasita Krishna: So it’s it’s almost a promise you’re making to the audience.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Because if you, typically you are attracting listeners who are, also otherwise listening to podcasts, and they’re probably listening to much bigger names. So if you follow Dax Shepard and Armchair, you know that Monday and Thursday an episode’s going to drop. And if you follow Ferriss you know that once a week something’s gonna drop and you start very subconsciously planning your listening around it.

So if you wanna be one of them, not in the sense of numbers and the same, but if you want to be someone who’s there, when you say you will be there, then you better get your act together. You can’t disappear for a few weeks. And then suddenly drop an episode and, the podcast metrics and the world right now around it is, It’s a little bizarre.

How the Podcast Rankings Change

Hasita Krishna: It is because I think podcast rankings change by the hour. Which I find very fascinating.

Subha Chandrasekaran: So suddenly you are in the top 10 in India.

Hasita Krishna: And then two days later you are like one fifty six, two hundred and fifty in Burkina Faso.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Or Oman

Hasita Krishna: and you’ve just fallen off the India chart entirely honestly, if that’s what we look at, and I know for a fact that we looked at that quite a bit before going into season two. It’s extremely taxing on the mind. It just changes your perspective entirely on why you are in it in the first place.

What is Hasita’s Response To Clients Wanting To Start a Podcast?

Subha Chandrasekaran: So then I’m gonna ask you again, if I am your client, a founder, a business owner, and I say, should I start a podcast?

Hasita Krishna: So let me be very honest with you. I’ve not told a single client to start a podcast. There have been a couple of instances where we have and the purpose was very different. In fact, one of them I’m very happy to share they were inviting on the podcast, the guests who would eventually become sales opportunities, right?

Which I think is a great way to leverage a podcast. Because you’re essentially able to establish a conversation with someone in a very neutral space, which is not something we see enough of. The other podcast, unfortunately, stopped before it even started. Again, a lack of, I think just direction in terms of what we want to say because that’s the other thing, right?

You make one episode, you make two episodes, you have a perspective, but what happens when you have to make 20, 25 episodes?

Subha Chandrasekaran: Do you have enough to say? And that’s an important thing to think about. I think that’s what I would take away that be very clear why you are starting it.

Set your expectations accordingly. And this is something that is a bit of a long game. Because just suddenly dropping a set of four, five episodes and disappearing I don’t think you’ll ever get found again by somebody. And you’ll even be making any use of that material.

Podcasts As Standalone Ventures

Hasita Krishna: Interesting because what I’m taking away from that is to really look at the podcast as a standalone venture of its own and not always tv. Because it’s gonna sit on the internet for a while. And if you’ve not really thought about it as, okay, hey, here’s a part-time job that now I’ve also taken on, I think it’s probably not gonna go too far.

Subha Chandrasekaran: You’re right. It’s not an afterthought. It’s the main thought. It’s one more thing that you have fully taken on. So how many, I don’t know if you are seeing it, but I’m getting these messages especially on LinkedIn. Saying, Hey, would you like to co-host? A podcast, Hey, would you like to be a guest on this podcast. And so definitely there’s I think the awareness and the audience for this kind of content, audio or video is increasing.

Increasing Awareness About Podcasts

Hasita Krishna: I think honestly, since I’ve put podcast host down as a position on my LinkedIn profile, I’ve had a lot of people reach out and ask if I would be open to hosting other podcasts. And just for the record, the answer is no at this point in time. But what I did is I just went and updated my bio to say exactly that, right? I think the understanding of a podcast host is a speaker of the podcast, the person who shows up and speaks.

Subha Chandrasekaran: I think what you’re looking for is a voiceover artist.

Hasita Krishna: To some extent, right? Or you’re a big influencer in the space who’s now becoming the face of a brand. That I think is a completely different conversation. I don’t know if I mean as a business, I’m just thinking if I’m really huge, and we’ve seen those examples as well, it makes sense for me to have a celebrity host and a celebrity guest profile. But you and me, we don’t have the budgets to be able to afford.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Correct. No and for us it’s about not talking from the brand’s voice, but about what we want to say,

Hasita Krishna: which is a big thing. No, beyond the point you, you have to work with the brand guardrails if you’re doing it in that ecosystem. Correct.

Celebrity Podcasts

Subha Chandrasekaran: And even the Good celebrity podcast that we have heard, like from Meredith Grace, Ellen Pompeo to Julia Dreyfus, they are doing it in their own voice and in their own style. They’re investing that time and energy. I’m sure they have a production crew that’s huge and somebody who’s helping them find the guests and script it to an extent and do the research. But finally on that day, they have to land up and.

Hasita Krishna: If you ask Megan Markle, apparently you don’t have to land up, but who knows.

And also the retainership of those podcasts. I think when you share Ellen Pompeo’s podcast, I think I heard the first one and then I never went back to it. So there’s going to be that audience who’s showing up just for the curiosity of it all. Never gonna come back again.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Correct. And also because some of these people you don’t want to get so up close and personal maybe.

Hasita Krishna: Like William Dalrymple. I would’ve just, I should have stuck to the books.

Subha Chandrasekaran: You learned the hard way, but that’s right. Some people you don’t tend to like any medium you like, sometimes you like the style, sometimes you don’t.

And you have to be ready for the fact that not everyone who you thought would listen is listening.

Hosting a Podcast

Hasita Krishna: And just, talking about hosting, who should host what kind of pull they have. I think if you’ve made up your mind that you’re going to do a podcast and you’re going to do it at least for a year or a couple of years, minimum, it’s okay to find a host, right?

If you found someone who’s got the ability to pull that particular topic off, I think it’s perfectly alright. Obviously, our context is different. We started it in. This is our baby in that sense. But it’s not always necessary that we have to be the name of the voice of the podcast all the time, I think.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Correct. No, definitely, if you’re busy running your company, you’re a founder, but you do want to create some talking points around, Your space because maybe it’s new, maybe it’s up and coming. Then, definitely makes sense to think it through, find the right voice for it and get it produced and put it out there.

But I think what we are coming back to is that you need to have your why clearly in place. You need to be consistent. You need to see what are the metrics that truly mean something to you. Because I don’t know today, if let’s say you and I by some stroke of luck gather thousands and thousands of listeners. It’s great. But we don’t have the capacity to handle any incoming business of that scale.

What is a Big Podcast?

Hasita Krishna: That, and also I was thinking, I think a lot of people look at this podcast in particular and actually think it’s bigger than it is. And I don’t know what is bigger because ever since Joyce put that question in my mind, I’m just asking if it’s bigger, how is it bigger?

And I watch a lot of shows with them. I’m sure they have a lot more listeners, but for example, they don’t have the same number of reviews. But we have some really amazing reviews and we have people coming back and telling us, this was useful to me. Which I think is a far better reason to stick to it than maybe the numbers alone, because like you said, honestly I’m very happy to admit that bandwidth doesn’t exist at this point in there.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Exactly. We don’t want to be saddled with that burden. And I think you’re right. Once you do start hearing back from your listeners, which, if you’re putting out quality stuff, you will. Then be loyal to that group. Because listeners do come back and tell us, I listened to this particular episode and I tried this out.

Or, I love this episode on this topic. It really resonated or I’ve been thinking about it and. Frankly, that’s really all that we’re asking for.

Hasita Krishna: Absolutely. In fact, the number of people who decided not to build a website after listening to the website episode, I’m quite proud and I’m very grateful that we’ve been able to make that difference to someone.

I think that makes a huge difference to us back. Correct.

Subha Chandrasekaran: That keeps us going. Definitely. But so do your reviews and follows.

Hasita Krishna: Please follow. Please subscribe. Please share it with five people for good luck.

Segment – Only Murders in The Building

Hasita Krishna: Speaking of diversity in podcasts, if I get to the segment without dying laughing, it’s gonna be an achievement.

Subha Chandrasekaran: This is by the way, and it is just, It’s gonna be hilarious.

Hasita Krishna: Only murders in the building. Let’s start there.

Subha Chandrasekaran: I think only murders in the building probably spiked a lot of interest in podcasts.

Hasita Krishna: It’s that whole art imitates life situations because clearly podcasts have been on the collective consciousness for a while. Maybe more so during the pandemic. And I just see that whole series as an expression of just that,

Subha Chandrasekaran: I think the only challenges are that they make it look. Quite effortless.

Hasita Krishna: Oh, running around with mics on the streets of New York. Good luck getting a single dialog in.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Exactly. We are soundproof in a podcast studio and still we sometimes can’t hear each other.

But definitely it brings about the fact that if you’re saying the right things in a way, or if you attack that topic with. Honesty and intent. And authenticity. There will be listeners,

Hasita Krishna: and especially if it’s a murder mystery, Subha will write you her inheritance.

Subha Chandrasekaran: It’s right now in the name of two people in Arizona.

But now, let’s get to the other one that I recently discovered.

Who Shat On The Floor At My Wedding

Hasita Krishna: Actually why don’t you just read the thing that this person has posted. She’s gone Stella on Twitter.

Subha Chandrasekaran: I need to tell you all about the podcast I’ve discovered called Who,

Hasita Krishna: Who shat on the floor at my wedding.

Subha Chandrasekaran: No. The title is not the funniest part because it goes on to say it’s a 12 part investigation into literally exactly that. Two women on a mission to discover which friend slash family member shat on the floor at their wedding.

Hasita Krishna: Just to put this in perspective, guys, this is the ecosystem in which we are producing and hoping to rank a podcast. Given a choice between listening to my own episode and listening to Who Shat on the floor at my wedding, I think I know where my chips are falling.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Oh my God. And then, They interrogate the mother-in-law.

Okay. And she in full exasperation claims. I’ll say again what I’ve already said to your wife and to the detectives. It wasn’t the right time of day for me.

Oh, it doesn’t get better than this, but it does cause it’s listed under true crime

Hasita Krishna: and that’s how Subha found it.

Which actually is interesting, podcasts are supposed to be entertainment vehicles as well, right?

Subha Chandrasekaran: What more do I need in life than a 12 part investigative series of this kind?

Hasita Krishna: It’s an interesting conversation on the different mindsets in which we listen to them. Because you opened with Huberman Lab, right?

Subha Chandrasekaran: Exactly. Huberman Lab is a neurologist and ophthalmologist at Stanford University, and he is some other level of competence and articulation.

Hasita Krishna: And smoothness and sophistication in a lot of things that make us very happy.

Subha Chandrasekaran: And then we have these guys and the wedding. Take your pick. Pick both. That’s what we do. It, actually, brings me to another point before we wrap up. How do you decide if a podcast is the thing for you?

How Do You Decide If Podcast Is The Right Thing For You?

Hasita Krishna: I think two, three things, right? First of all, do you enjoy listening to them yourself? Have you ever listened to one? At any point in time assuming you’re listening to this, you probably have, but like in general, make that decision with that lens in mind.

And I think that a way to gently dip your toes is to go be a guest on other shows, I think, that are relevant to your industry and your domain. In fact, you can go on five and you can look up people who do podcast placements and they’ll easily get you two, three placements. You can also specify saying, this is a kind of podcast I want to be on, and give that a try and see what happens.

Right? Are you enjoying the experience? Are you enjoying having that conversation? Are you enjoying it beyond just being a guest and sharing what you think? Are the mechanics of it making sense to you? Is it exciting to you? And I think if it’s right, it, you’ll know. It is what I’ve found. I think.

And we’ve also known when it was wrong and when we needed to just stop.

Subha Chandrasekaran: For example, I think we know that for some reason we’re not yet fully convinced and we are not fully ready to make this a video podcast. And how do we know that? Maybe because we tried a few video reels.

We tried a few video posts on Instagram. And we know the effort that it takes and you wanna do it right and you wanna do it well. And maybe we’ll get there. Maybe we won’t. I’m personally not a very video person in terms of even consumption. I don’t watch videos. I can listen for hours.

And so take that call, listen to others, and watch other video podcasts. Like she said, become a guest. And experience how the production side of things is how many retakes you have to do. Unless you’re like us and you wing it, but

Hasita Krishna: Well do we? I think it’s the poor editing team that suffers the brunt of, so all those logistics as well. I mean take it to a good production company, like CrazyTok. It makes a huge difference when you have someone else who’s backing you up on

Subha Chandrasekaran: And that’s. CrazyTok. That’s their name.

Hasita Krishna: Yes.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Great guys to work with. So what did we finally decide?

Hasita Krishna: Should you start a podcast? It’s like asking should you have a baby? I don’t know.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Exactly. I don’t know what’s like for you, what’s your context?

And why are you having that baby? And what do you wanna, what do you plan to do with that baby? Now it’s getting morbid, but I don’t think there’s a straightforward answer, but I would really maybe veer towards a no till you can do a bit of groundwork around all of these things that we’ve spoken about honestly,

Hasita Krishna: I think if you’ve got, and purely from a tactical standpoint, if you can fix your other marketing channels versus doing a podcast, I think fix your other marketing channels there’s a lot more potential and opportunity in just doing the plain old simple things, right? And that is where I would expend my energy.

Subha Chandrasekaran: And If you want to try this out, do, but please give it a budget for that time and energy. It’s not going to happen suddenly, overnight, et cetera. It is going to take Hours of your time? And is it expensive?

Reasonably. You do need to if you wanna do a good show, then you do need production support. You need a good studio environment, or you need good mics. And your time is money too. And you need to invest that time.